# Nlgeom and Kinematic Coupling

Hi! I noticed that analyses with nlgeom have difficulty when kinematic coupling is involved. Now also seeing it for a relatively simple model.

It’s a rectangular beam profile, meshed with S8R quadratic shell elements, in bending.
At both ends, a surface (type=node) is kinematically coupled with a reference point to which BCs are applied.

Without nlgeom, it runs in a second and shows a reasonable result. But with nlgeom, the simulation fails.
Since I’m going to more complex (shell) structures and expect large deformation, I’d like to include nlgeom. It’d be helpful to know what the issue can be here.
Thanks.

There’s a know issue with non-convergence in models involving shells, rigid body constraints and Nlgeom. Maybe a similar problem can occur with coupling constraints: Rigid-body constraint convergance problems

Did you try solving the same model with solid elements ?

Ah, thanks for the reference.
Haven’t tried with solids yet. But if I understood well, shell elements are actually converted into solids for the Calculix solver (?)

Yes, but the expansion to solids is nonlinear due to the generation of knots. Guido explained it at the bottom of the aforementioned thread: Rigid-body constraint convergance problems - #25 by dhondt

Most probably your model is underconstraint.
Think for a while in this image and what a Kinematic coupling really means.

But then it should fail without Nlgeom too. A frequency check won’t hurt though.

Not necessarily. Linear analysis only sees your input initial vertical forces, all of them perfectly distributed. Nlgeom may introduce small numerical error when updating the geometry and Kinematic can’t constrain rotations.

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520,0.5625,0.01,-0.005
521,0.2875,0.005,-0.005
522,0.3,0.0025,-0.005
523,0.3125,0.005,-0.005
524,0.325,0.0025,-0.005
525,0.8875,0.01,-0.005
526,0.2875,0.01,-0.005
527,0.3,0.0075,-0.005
528,0.85,-0.0025,-0.005
529,0.1125,-0.005,-0.005
530,0.125,-0.0075,-0.005
531,0.1125,-0.01,-0.005
532,0.125,-0.0025,-0.005
533,0.7125,0.01,-0.005
534,0.725,0.0075,-0.005
535,0.1375,-0.005,-0.005
536,0.15,-0.0075,-0.005
537,0.1375,-0.01,-0.005
538,0.3125,0.01,-0.005
539,0.325,0.0075,-0.005
540,0.15,-0.0025,-0.005
541,0.7375,0.005,-0.005
542,0.1625,-0.005,-0.005
543,0.175,-0.0075,-0.005
544,0.1625,-0.01,-0.005
545,0.9375,-0.01,-0.005
546,0.175,-0.0025,-0.005
547,0.7375,0.01,-0.005
548,0.1875,-0.005,-0.005
549,0.1875,-0.01,-0.005
550,0.6625,-0.005,-0.005
551,0.675,-0.0075,-0.005
552,0.6625,-0.01,-0.005
553,0.9875,-0.005,-0.005
554,1,-0.0075,-0.005
555,0.9875,-0.01,-0.005
556,0.3375,0.005,-0.005
557,0.35,0.0025,-0.005
558,0.8625,-0.005,-0.005
559,0.875,-0.0075,-0.005
560,0.8625,-0.01,-0.005
561,0.3375,0.01,-0.005
562,0.35,0.0075,-0.005
563,0.3625,0.005,-0.005
564,0.375,0.0025,-0.005
565,0.3625,0.01,-0.005
566,1,-0.0025,-0.005
567,0.6625,0.01,-0.005
568,0.8875,-0.01,-0.005
569,0.6875,-0.01,-0.005
570,0,0,0
571,1,0,0
*ELEMENT,TYPE=S8
1,18,102,141,4,206,207,208,209
2,155,192,50,25,210,211,212,213
3,166,100,133,62,214,215,216,217
4,102,21,158,141,218,219,220,207
5,73,105,114,89,221,222,223,224
6,4,141,193,77,208,225,226,227
7,192,184,190,50,228,229,230,211
8,141,158,16,193,220,231,232,225
9,54,52,71,183,233,234,235,236
10,77,193,109,112,226,237,238,239
11,179,62,198,51,240,241,242,243
12,25,50,19,81,212,244,245,246
13,193,16,122,109,232,247,248,237
14,110,89,130,128,249,250,251,252
15,112,109,152,27,238,253,254,255
16,50,190,84,19,230,256,257,244
17,109,122,30,152,248,258,259,253
18,51,198,173,146,242,260,261,262
19,62,133,54,198,216,263,264,241
20,33,56,178,32,265,266,267,268
21,69,104,61,23,269,270,271,272
22,116,64,163,67,273,274,275,276
23,56,36,187,178,277,278,279,266
24,198,54,183,173,264,236,280,260
25,104,72,118,61,281,282,283,270
26,78,53,142,92,284,285,286,287
27,32,178,41,169,267,288,289,290
28,52,57,177,71,291,292,293,234
29,23,61,127,115,271,294,295,296
30,146,173,139,125,261,297,298,299
31,178,187,143,41,279,300,301,288
32,59,76,72,104,302,303,281,304
33,61,118,155,127,283,305,306,294
34,53,81,116,142,307,308,309,285
35,173,183,176,139,280,310,311,297
36,169,41,182,200,289,312,313,314
37,115,127,10,3,295,315,316,317
38,81,19,64,116,245,318,273,308
39,63,5,180,175,319,320,321,322
40,24,119,149,145,323,324,325,326
41,90,101,108,105,327,328,329,330
42,127,155,25,10,306,213,331,315
43,101,93,111,108,332,333,334,328
44,87,131,73,123,335,336,337,338
45,105,108,117,114,329,339,340,222
46,3,10,53,78,316,341,284,342
47,108,111,120,117,334,343,344,339
48,125,139,205,189,298,345,346,347
49,114,117,35,126,340,348,349,350
50,10,25,81,53,331,246,307,341
51,117,120,43,35,344,351,352,348
52,119,27,157,149,353,354,355,324
53,126,35,113,97,349,356,357,358
54,89,114,126,130,223,350,359,250
55,35,43,99,113,352,360,361,356
56,145,149,171,164,325,362,363,364
57,41,143,47,182,301,365,366,312
58,149,157,181,171,355,367,368,362
59,92,142,14,186,286,369,370,371
60,164,171,20,191,363,372,373,374
61,139,176,96,205,311,375,376,345
62,171,181,28,20,368,377,378,372
63,200,182,1,42,313,379,380,381
64,191,20,56,33,373,382,265,383
65,19,84,85,64,257,384,385,318
66,5,66,80,180,386,387,388,320
67,20,28,36,56,378,389,277,382
68,189,205,199,60,346,390,391,392
69,79,94,48,136,393,394,395,396
70,60,199,129,124,391,397,398,399
71,9,140,147,144,400,401,402,403
72,180,80,121,82,388,404,405,406
73,140,11,150,147,407,408,409,401
74,182,47,45,1,366,410,411,379
75,144,147,156,153,402,412,413,414
76,7,37,75,98,415,416,417,418
77,147,150,159,156,409,419,420,412
78,205,96,63,199,376,421,422,390
79,153,156,165,162,413,423,424,425
80,45,136,2,8,426,427,428,429
81,156,159,168,165,420,430,431,423
82,96,154,5,63,432,433,319,421
83,162,165,172,15,424,434,435,436
84,1,45,8,65,411,429,437,438
85,165,168,18,172,431,439,440,434
86,136,48,170,2,395,441,442,427
87,183,71,103,176,235,443,444,310
88,199,63,175,129,422,322,445,397
89,163,44,70,161,446,447,448,449
90,8,2,6,100,428,450,451,452
91,64,85,44,163,385,453,446,274
92,107,202,90,131,454,455,456,457
93,71,177,132,103,293,458,459,443
94,2,170,12,6,442,460,461,450
95,154,188,66,5,462,463,386,433
96,202,161,101,90,464,465,327,455
97,196,65,166,138,466,467,468,469
98,100,6,31,133,451,470,471,215
99,138,166,62,179,468,217,240,472
100,27,152,134,157,254,473,474,354
101,11,29,49,150,475,476,477,408
102,176,103,154,96,444,478,432,375
103,29,13,58,49,479,480,481,476
104,6,12,40,31,461,482,483,470
105,150,49,68,159,477,484,485,419
106,152,30,174,134,259,486,487,473
107,49,58,74,68,481,488,489,484
108,124,129,194,185,398,490,491,492
109,159,68,83,168,485,493,494,430
110,76,7,98,72,495,418,496,303
111,68,74,88,83,489,497,498,493
112,133,31,52,54,471,499,233,263
113,168,83,102,18,494,500,206,439
114,72,98,167,118,496,501,502,282
115,83,88,21,102,498,503,218,500
116,157,134,148,181,474,504,505,367
117,67,163,161,202,275,449,464,506
118,31,40,57,52,483,507,291,499
119,134,174,26,148,487,508,509,504
120,203,82,7,76,510,511,495,512
121,181,148,17,28,505,513,514,377
122,42,1,65,196,380,438,466,515
123,148,26,46,17,509,516,517,513
124,129,175,203,194,445,518,519,490
125,103,132,188,154,459,520,462,478
126,28,17,137,36,514,521,522,389
127,36,137,151,187,522,523,524,278
128,161,70,93,101,448,525,332,465
129,17,46,39,137,517,526,527,521
130,142,116,67,14,309,276,528,369
131,15,172,201,195,435,529,530,531
132,131,90,105,73,456,330,221,336
133,172,18,4,201,440,209,532,529
134,98,75,204,167,417,533,534,501
135,195,201,55,22,530,535,536,537
136,137,39,160,151,527,538,539,523
137,201,4,77,55,532,227,540,535
138,118,167,192,155,502,541,210,305
139,22,55,106,86,536,542,543,544
140,123,73,89,110,337,224,249,545
141,55,77,112,106,540,239,546,542
142,167,204,184,192,534,547,228,541
143,86,106,119,24,543,548,323,549
144,185,194,59,34,491,550,551,552
145,106,112,27,119,546,255,353,548
146,128,130,135,95,251,553,554,555
147,187,151,197,143,524,556,557,300
148,175,180,82,203,321,406,510,518
149,186,14,107,91,370,558,559,560
150,151,160,38,197,539,561,562,556
151,65,8,100,166,437,452,214,467
152,194,203,76,59,519,512,302,550
153,143,197,79,47,557,563,564,365
154,14,67,202,107,528,506,454,558
155,197,38,94,79,562,565,393,563
156,130,126,97,135,359,358,566,553
157,47,79,136,45,564,396,426,410
158,82,121,37,7,405,567,415,511
159,91,107,131,87,559,457,335,568
160,34,59,104,69,551,304,269,569
*NSET,NSET=NSET_KINEMATIC2
95
97
99
113
135
357
361
554
566
*NSET,NSET=NSET_KINEMATIC1
9
11
13
29
140
400
407
475
479
*ELSET,ELSET=COMPONENT
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
*MATERIAL,NAME=STEEL(2)
*ELASTIC,TYPE=ISOTROPIC
210000000000,0.3
*DENSITY
7850
*SHELL SECTION,ELSET=COMPONENT,MATERIAL=STEEL(2)
0.01
*BOUNDARY
11,1,,0
11,4,,0
570,3,,0
570,2,,0
571,3,,0
571,2,,0
*AMPLITUDE,NAME=AZ_1
0,0
1,-10
*SURFACE,NAME=NSet_KINEMATIC1,TYPE=NODE
NSet_KINEMATIC1
*COUPLING,REF NODE=570,SURFACE=NSet_KINEMATIC1,CONSTRAINT NAME=RootCouple
*KINEMATIC
2,3

*SURFACE,NAME=NSet_KINEMATIC2,TYPE=NODE
NSet_KINEMATIC2
*COUPLING,REF NODE=571,SURFACE=NSet_KINEMATIC2,CONSTRAINT NAME=RootCouple
*KINEMATIC
2,3
*STEP,NLGEOM=YES,INC=100,AMPLITUDE=STEP
*STATIC
0.1,1,0,0
COMPONENT,GRAV,0,1,0,0
COMPONENT,GRAV,0,0,1,0