# LBA/MNA Analysis cylindrical shell under axial compression **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [January 12, 2023, 9:43am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444 "2023-01-12T09:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 9:43am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/1 "2023-01-12T09:43:41Z")
Hi, I’m going further based on this previous post (\*) as I want to apply LBA/MNA or GMNA method to compare results with DIN 18800-4 or EN 1993-1-6 bearing capacity. Eigen modes ok, eigen shapes symmetric, Maximum Misses exceeds 340Mpa (maybe some refinement is needed) but …. equivalent plastic strains is way below .3 on fully plastic areas. ¿Am I maybe reading wrong the results in Prepomax?. ¿Does it happen the same to someone else? I’m using S4 elements . ¿Is it suitable to capture plasticity properly.? (\*) [Nonlinear buckling of a cylindrical shell](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/nonlinear-buckling-of-a-cylindrical-shell/1437) ![screenshot.84](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/calculix/original/2X/3/3ccc7757a01ab788a5fcbca509cdea5afa0efb64.jpeg) ![screenshot.83](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/calculix/original/2X/4/4dc462bf7cba060d52501daf68fbcfe4babb646e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Calc\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Calc\_em](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Calc_em)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 11:13am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/2 "2023-01-12T11:13:02Z")
Can you share the .pmx file ? PE is equivalent plastic strain so it should be what you are looking for. Perhaps that approach with layered shell mentioned before would help. ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 11:40am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/3 "2023-01-12T11:40:12Z")
> [@Calc\_em](#): > > Can you share the .pmx file ? I prefer not to post before solving the discrepancy. > [@Calc\_em](#): > > layered shell ¿Do you mean laminated shell? ¿To add more integration points but keeping the isotropic nature? \*SHELL SECTION,ELSET=EALL,COMPOSITE 0.001,Material1,1 0.001,Material2,2 I would need S8 to do that. ¿Is that worth?. I can go directly to S8 but I would say Xyont has already discard that option. He ended up with solids ¿isn’t it.? ---
**Author:** ![Calc\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Calc\_em](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Calc_em)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 11:55am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/4 "2023-01-12T11:55:14Z")
> [@Disla](#): > > I prefer not to post before solving the discrepancy. I was asking for the file to help you find the source of the problem but never mind. > [@Disla](#): > > ¿Do you mean laminated shell? ¿To add more integration points but keeping the isotropic nature? I am talking about the approach used here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je91eMkItts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je91eMkItts) ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 12:07pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/5 "2023-01-12T12:07:15Z")
Oh, I miss that vid thanks. My file is based on tutorial but with BC as shown in the file I posted. I changed from S8 to S4 as you. Is much faster . You should be experiencing the same discrepancy and PEE below 0.3 on plastic areas. I did not pay attention to stresses until now. ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/6 "2023-01-12T12:18:35Z")
He is finally using S8R but I don’t understand what “with many layers mean”. ¿Is that overlaping shells? 😵‍💫 ---
**Author:** ![Calc\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Calc\_em](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Calc_em)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 12:21pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/7 "2023-01-12T12:21:58Z")
> [@Disla](#): > > He is finally using S8R but I don’t understand what “with many layers mean”. > ¿Is that overlaping shells? 😵‍💫 There’s a link to his input file in the description of that video. > [@Disla](#): > > but with BC as shown in the file I posted Do you mean one of the n1/n2 files from the previous forum thread ? > [@Disla](#): > > You should be experiencing the same discrepancy and PEE below 0.3 on plastic areas. In my case PE reaches the maximum value of 0.4615. ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/8 "2023-01-12T12:30:36Z")
> [@Calc\_em](#): > > Do you mean one of the n1/n2 files Right. I’m using free free BC n1. My imperfection pattern is much symmetric that yours. That’s why shell buckle symmetrically. I’m using the pattern shown on my pictures. ![imagen](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/calculix/original/2X/5/5b03251653b43612f296c45bf9f683ca1570e0d7.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/9 "2023-01-12T12:35:42Z")
I don’t personally think this Eigenproblem is properly solved but didn’t pay to much attention as we use it as pattern for imperfections. Real life imperfections are not symmetric like mine so …Seems completely valid approach. ![imagen](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/calculix/original/2X/d/d1e183de6729bef198c8aa56060523f61a6e540c.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/10 "2023-01-12T14:54:47Z")
COMPOSITE 12 layers per shell . 😵 ---
**Author:** ![JuanP74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5a626/32.png) [@JuanP74](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/JuanP74)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/11 "2023-01-12T15:25:42Z")
I think the purpose is to capture the thru the thickness behavior after the 3D expansion of the layered elements…probably 3 or 4 layers are enough (tbc). ---
**Author:** ![dichtstoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@dichtstoff](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/dichtstoff)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:09am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/12 "2023-01-13T06:09:52Z")
Have you done such analysis with a plate under axial compression? Have you results with LBA/MNA Analysis ? i have here an example with a plate: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/calculix/original/2X/d/d99d3657b77c243b9d2f5fa4594230d5e4e0db06.png) can you reproduce all these results for a simple plate? ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/calculix/original/2X/a/a2997284be2ca1cef479b11a314de7b1a147f55b.png) I’m working on these analysis and later i want also to try cylindrical shell under axial compression, but for me i’m fighting with these simple problem using ccx. I’m very interested in your approach and your results, so i can reproduce with a simple plate your analysis. thnx in advance wbr ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:12am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/13 "2023-01-13T09:12:13Z")
Hi, @dichtstoff ¿Could you show BC,s or better, the reference document where this comes from? ¿Is Poisson’s Ratio somewhere?. It affects if BC are hard constrained, and you need it also for computing G in case you want to try the layered approach. ¿Don’t you think this deserves its own “NEW post”? . We will be mixing with cylindrical shell. ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/14 "2023-01-13T18:13:24Z")
Hi @dichtstoff , Considering simply supported , Poisson’s Ratio 0.3 and Tangent Modulus E/100 for plastic analysis my results are: | | RESULTS | REFERENCE | RESULTS | REFERENCE | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | Methode | sx,Rd [N/mm2] | sx,Rd [N/mm2] | w [mm] | w [mm] | | EN 1993-1-5 | | 173 | | | | LA | 355.1 | 355 | | | | LAB | 112.7 | 112 | | | | MNA | 355.0 | 355.0 | | | | GNIA (e0=5mm) | ?? | 143 | ?? | 21 | | GMNIA (e0=5mm) | 172 | 176 | 29.4 | 31 | LA, LBA and MNA has been done with 256 Elements S8. GMNIA has GNIA has been done with 4096 solid elements C3D20. 4 layers per thickness. GNIA is not finished. I’m not sure to have solve it properly yet. Maybe someone can help. I’m not sure how to identify the point of interest. I have done a displacement control test to see if reactions help me to determine the solution but there is not a clear knockdown or slope change . I think I should reduce the imperfection value from 5 mm to 2.5mm. Here ther is a screenshop of my BC. ![imagen](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/calculix/original/2X/b/b08cfc247575fdedfb3360edd04c335c46642e57.png) ---
**Author:** ![dichtstoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@dichtstoff](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/dichtstoff)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/15 "2023-01-13T18:53:46Z")
Hi, @Disla the BC are hinged Poisson’s Ratio is 0.3 Predeformation is first buckling mode with e = 5 mm plasticity is bilinear with tangent modulus = 0 \*PLASTIC 235,0 I see you 're very fast, i think if these works with plate buckling, the same (step and analysis) should work with shell buckling, all steps are equal or simular. your boundary in the plate are essential for your results? for symmetry? thnx in advance ---
**Author:** ![Disla](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/disla/32/3548_2.png) [@Disla](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/Disla)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2023, 11:46am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/16 "2023-01-14T11:46:45Z")
> [@dichtstoff](#): > > \*PLASTIC > 235,0 I gess you mean (355,0) Perfec plasticity can lead to convergence problems. To avoid going to more sofisticated stress strain curves like the ones shown in the general rules , I’m using E/100=2.1 GPa. (Reference DNV-RP-C208 Non-linear FE analysis Methods . Figure 5-6 ) > [@dichtstoff](#): > > your boundary in the plate are essential for your results? for symmetry? It is not about symmetry. Hinged doesn’t seem compatible with the picture. It shows two loads applied simultaneously on each side. As hinged doesn’t allow translation in the horizontal plane that wouldn’t make sense. Hinged is intended for vertical loads on top of the plate as it resist both the vertical and horizontal reaction forces. I have applied simply supported/roller. EDIT: Another detail. Constraining displacements on both sides of a plate, beam or whatever introduces additional stress due to the Poisson’s ratio effect when it tries to accommodate the volume change. ---
**Author:** ![dichtstoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@dichtstoff](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/dichtstoff)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2023, 6:06am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/17 "2023-01-17T06:06:37Z")
Hello Disla, at first thank you for your interest and engament, I appreciate it very much. To have the simply supported roller will not be purposeful for me. these will not be working if you have plate buckling of shearing stress, or if you have both, pressure and shear stress!? you can apply node or point boundaries in the corner, two could be enough, one with fixed in x and y and one only in y these could be a possibilty. I need some time to reproduce your procedure. I do not have time at the moment. But I will definitely come back on these issue. ---
**Author:** ![xyont](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/calculix.discourse.group/xyont/32/3553_2.png) [@xyont](https://calculix.discourse.group/u/xyont)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2023, 10:39am UTC](https://calculix.discourse.group/t/lba-mna-analysis-cylindrical-shell-under-axial-compression/1444/19 "2023-01-20T10:39:08Z")
> [@Disla](#): > > I would need S8 to do that i’m using S6 shell element just for quick review the analysis models. right, it seems required layering to capture plasticity better as i mention before. at another post replied i’m also done with solid element to compared the clamping condition of model with shell element. i did not further study the problem issued by @Calc_em of rigid body and layered shell element connectivity but has experienced problem with nonlinear spring, so i’m only guess probably the same causes.